No Crank, No jeep, No sleep (2005 GC 5.7L)

[TorqueTalk]

Originally Posted by Starion VR4

1- starter fluid into the inlet & then try to start it

Thanks again Starion,

No dice with the starter fluid, I sprayed it as I was jumping the starter motor relay (cranks nicely when jumped) and had a passer by turning ignition to [start] but no fire and thunder. The fuel pump primes when I turn the key to [On].

Originally Posted by JGC-ANDY

1- factory immobiliser… turning off correctly?
2- wiring from the battery to ignition to starter … check power through the circuit
3- key in the start position and jumping the starter
4- earth straps

Cheers Andy,

1- This is something I hopefully can rule out because during the first ignition cycle the SKIS passes its self test and the indicator light goes out, I can also read codes (if any).

2- The wiring from battery to ignition to starter is all sound, although I have read there is a hot splice from the ignition switch to the PCM which I have heard of but can’t find in the FSM (the FSM is for the WK not the WH variant exactly).

3- The engine cranks beautifully when I jump the starter but no thunder from the V8 with the key to [start] simultaneously. This could mean the PCM is also not energising the ASD relay with a ground at pin 85? I am getting some strange signals on the ASD relay and I have attached a table.

4- As above, there are some anomalous ground signals and continuity conflicts when I use my multimeter at the ASD relay terminals and the transmission range sensor harness. I seriously hope there is an short somewhere (because I can fix that) but could that lead to the symptoms I outlined in my OP? (would the PCM inhibit ground to the starter motor relay etc. as a failsafe?)

Originally Posted by Clarky

1- Yellow wire to the starter
2- Ignition contacts worn preventing ignition cycle.

Thanks Clarky,

1- I can jump the starter relay by bridging pins 30 and 87, causing the starter motor to crank the engine nicely. This indicates the problem is upstream from the starter and starter solenoid.

2- The output from the Fused Ignition Switch is reaching pin 86 of the starter relay when the key is turned to [Start] which rules out the ignition? The ground signal to pin 85 is not being supplied from the PCM and hence not energising the relay coil (which would allow current to pass from pin 30 to pin 87 to action the starter and crank the engine, something I am able to do manually by jumping pin 30 and 87).

Originally Posted by Clarky

……….

That’s all very good info, I will definitely be drawing from it once I have the Jeep running again. I have checked under the Integrated Power Module and the Power Distribution Centre and can confirm the sockets and terminals are clean. I wonder if the cabin/courtesy light flickering is a symptom of the same issue that is causing the no crank situation. I have not been able to find where they share a harness with the ignition system in the FSM (FSM is for 2005 model WK, not for 2005 WH unfortunately). Is this no crank condition just a PCM failsafe?

Originally Posted by Jonny Jeep

1- ignition switch actuator pin ... causing a no crank issue (or a bad ignition switch)

Thanks Jonny,

1- I am definitely getting a signal (12v) to the starter relay pin 86 from the Fused Ignition Switch Output when they key is turned to [start], but no ground to pin 85 from the PCM. Jumping pins 30 and 87 gives a beautiful crank but turning the key to [Start] at the same time does not lead to an engine start.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and tips, please keep them coming and we can get there (out of there).

[Gojeep]

Originally Posted by TorqueTalk

Thanks again Starion,

No dice with the starter fluid, I sprayed it as I was jumping the starter motor relay (cranks nicely when jumped) and had a passer by turning ignition to [start] but no fire and thunder. The fuel pump primes when I turn the key to [On].



Cheers Andy,

1- This is something I hopefully can rule out because during the first ignition cycle the SKIS passes its self test and the indicator light goes out, I can also read codes (if any).

2- The wiring from battery to ignition to starter is all sound, although I have read there is a hot splice from the ignition switch to the PCM which I have heard of but can’t find in the FSM (the FSM is for the WK not the WH variant exactly).

3- The engine cranks beautifully when I jump the starter but no thunder from the V8 with the key to [start] simultaneously. This could mean the PCM is also not energising the ASD relay with a ground at pin 85? I am getting some strange signals on the ASD relay and I have attached a table.

4- As above, there are some anomalous ground signals and continuity conflicts when I use my multimeter at the ASD relay terminals and the transmission range sensor harness. I seriously hope there is an short somewhere (because I can fix that) but could that lead to the symptoms I outlined in my OP? (would the PCM inhibit ground to the starter motor relay etc. as a failsafe?)



Thanks Clarky,

1- I can jump the starter relay by bridging pins 30 and 87, causing the starter motor to crank the engine nicely. This indicates the problem is upstream from the starter and starter solenoid.

2- The output from the Fused Ignition Switch is reaching pin 86 of the starter relay when the key is turned to [Start] which rules out the ignition? The ground signal to pin 85 is not being supplied from the PCM and hence not energising the relay coil (which would allow current to pass from pin 30 to pin 87 to action the starter and crank the engine, something I am able to do manually by jumping pin 30 and 87).



That’s all very good info, I will definitely be drawing from it once I have the Jeep running again. I have checked under the Integrated Power Module and the Power Distribution Centre and can confirm the sockets and terminals are clean. I wonder if the cabin/courtesy light flickering is a symptom of the same issue that is causing the no crank situation. I have not been able to find where they share a harness with the ignition system in the FSM (FSM is for 2005 model WK, not for 2005 WH unfortunately). Is this no crank condition just a PCM failsafe?

Thanks again everyone for your advice and tips, please keep them coming and we can get there (out of there).

If there is a relationship between all the faults, it sounds like it would be from the column itself as the only place where they all would work from? When I stripped my WH 5.7 down there was a group of earths coming together on top of the column, so wonder if that was loose or corroded if it would affect them all?

[TorqueTalk]

Originally Posted by Gojeep

1- A relationship between all the faults.. Group of earths coming together on top of the column. Loose or corroded?

Thanks Gojeep,

I will definitely be looking into that, its a bit finicky to get to but it makes a lot of sense for those to be a factor due to their location.

[TorqueTalk]

Here is the advanced diagnostic scan report from just now, prior to any action from the bidirectional tool.

I hope this, coupled with the symptoms above, can help you to help me find why I have the current No Crank condition.

* I am able to run the program (New PCM) on the WCM to send the secret key to the PCM successfully which indicates both are communicating nominally? (It isnt a new PCM, I was just testing the communication between the SKIM and the PCM)
* The stored codes in the WCM relate to when I used the correct key but on the same keyring as another RFD, the day all this started (see OP).
* The radio is not factory and can boot up independent of the car running or key position.

Vehicle Scan Report

Vehicle details
My car: 2005 WK Grand Cherokee
VIN: 1****************
Odometer: *halfway to the moon*
Report generated: 20-Nov-19 1:55:33 PM
The list of available systems
AMP - Amplifier
Part no.: 05059073AO
Num of DTCs: 8
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 B1463 Active Channel 1 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
2 B1468 Active Channel 2 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
3 B146D Active Channel 3 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
4 B1472 Active Channel 4 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
5 B1477 Active Channel 5 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
6 B147C Active Channel 6 Audio Speaker Output Circuit Open
7 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
8 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

CCN - Instrument Cluster/Cabin Compartment Node
Part no.: 56050207AJ
Num of DTCs: 2
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

DDM - Driver Door Module
Part no.: 56038721AJ
Num of DTCs: 7
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 B1D35 Active Driver Mirror Heater Control Circuit Open
2 U0151 Stored Lost Communication with Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)
3 U0156 Stored Lost Communication With Electronic Overhead Module
4 U0167 Stored Lost Communication With Intrusion Transceiver Control Module
5 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module
6 U0184 Stored Lost Communication With Radio
7 U0231 Stored Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

EOM - Electronic Overhead
Part no.: 56050242AG
Num of DTCs: 2
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

FCMCGW - Central Gateway
Part no.: 56040662AJ
Num of DTCs: 5
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 B162C Active Left Low Beam Control Circuit High
2 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
3 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
4 U0151 Stored Lost Communication with Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)
5 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module

FDCM - Final Drive Control/All Wheel Drive
Part no.: 68235713AB
Num of DTCs: 4
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 C140A Stored Transfer Case Motor Performance
2 U0100 Stored Lost Communication With ECM/PCM
3 U0101 Stored Lost Communication with TCM
4 U0415 Stored Implausible Data Received from ABS

HSM - Heated Seat Module
Part no.: 04602327AH
Num of DTCs: 4
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
3 U0151 Stored Lost Communication with Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)
4 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module

HVAC - Heat, Ventilation and A/C
Part no.: 55111011AD
Num of DTCs: 3
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0151 Stored Lost Communication with Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)
3 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module

ITM - Intrusion
Part no.: 56038728AG
Num of DTCs: 5
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 B1A3C Active Internal Siren Battery
2 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
3 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
4 B1A3F Stored ITM Arming Sequence Performance
5 U110D Stored Lost Communication with Security Siren

MSMD - Memory Seat
Part no.: 04602326AO
Num of DTCs: 2
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

ORC - Occupant Restraint
Part no.: 04606938AD
Num of DTCs: 5
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
3 B212D Stored Ignition Run Only Input Circuit Open
4 U1414 Stored Implausible/Missing ECU Network Configuration Data
5 U1415 Stored Implausible/Missing Vehicle Configuration Data

PCM - Powertrain Control Module
Part no.: 56044596AI
Num of DTCs: 0

PDM - Passenger Door Module
Part no.: 56038721AJ
Num of DTCs: 6
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
3 U0151 Stored Lost Communication with Occupant Restraint Controller (ORC)
4 U0156 Stored Lost Communication With Electronic Overhead Module
5 U0167 Stored Lost Communication With Intrusion Transceiver Control Module
6 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module

PTS - Parktronics
Part no.: 05026016AB
Num of DTCs: 4
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module
3 U0156 Stored Lost Communication With Electronic Overhead Module
4 U0168 Stored Lost Communication With Vehicle Security Control Module

SCM - Steering Column
Part no.: 56050097AL
Num of DTCs: 2
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 U0184 Active Lost Communication With Radio
2 U0231 Active Lost Communication With Light Rain Sensing Module

TCM - Transmission Control Module
Part no.: 05094298AC
Num of DTCs: 1
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 P1684 Stored Battery Was Disconnected

WCM - Wireless Control
Part no.: 56040638AW
Num of DTCs: 2
No. DTC code DTC status Description
1 B1A25 Stored Invalid Key
2 B1A35 Stored Unidentified Key Communication Error

Thank you in advance for your analysis, I havent cleared any codes (except the WCM) because I do not want to cover the trail towards a solution. Anyone out there who can connect these dots please comment and we could be very close to a solution.

[TorqueTalk]

Still no crank.
Thank you for all your help in narrowing this down. There are clearly a few gremlins around this jeep but the most significant is the one causing the NO crank No start condition that is keeping my ride stuck in this low clearance underground carpark next to Sydney International Airport.

Thanks to the AppCar DiagFCA software and the OBDLink Mx+, I have been able to access live data from the Wireless Control Module ( WCM ) ( part # 56040638AW ), among other things.

What’s wrong:

1. “ NGC / SKREEM Status: Engine Kill Command ” *
2. The stored code in the WCM is: “ B2254 Column Lock Module Internal “ **
*The Next Generation Controller ( NGC ) is another name for the PCM. **The Column Lock Module ( EVL / ELV / ESCL / ESL )( part # 05057278AA ) is present in the RHD export version of the 05 WK known as the 05 WH, it locks the steering wheel in place when the key is out of the ignition. Mine is now unlocked at all times, alongside my No Crank issue. Please do not confuse this module with ignition cylinder.

What’s right:

The WCM and the PCM ( part # 56044517AE software flashed to # 56044596AI ) are absolutely fine. There was no electrostatic discharge causing them to malfunction or need replacement due to a hardware fault. They are communicating nicely as I can run routines to send the SKIM’s pin to the PCM and update the vin with no trouble. The remote central locking works well and the WCM also regards both keys as valid SKIM keys and can differentiate between keys 1 and 2. Live data from the PCM shows that it registers key position and is acting nominally in every way, other than sending the required ground to enable a crank (pin 85 of the starter relay) etc.

Because of this “ ENGINE KILL COMMAND “ the dealer will want to replace (at a minimum) both the Column Lock Module and the WCM and program both with associated costs of $1700 (plus $400 worth of tows).

The cause of all of this is: I stored the Jeep for a month without a battery.

The F20 recall apparently addressed this although it is very hard to find info about this. It allegedly involved the WCM and Column Lock Module being replaced due to a No Crank condition after a battery discharge event (see post #5):

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/...t-flat-572955/

When I enter my VIN, F20 is showing as “Complete” on the Mopar website, but unlike my N23 recall, there is no Recall Date, NHTSA Recall # and the pdf link is also down. Does anyone know anything about the F20 recall in regard to part numbers? My Column Lock Module has a date of manufacture 09 04 2005 and I believe its original. If so, then was the F20 recall done properly or at all? I invite you to please punch in your vin and let me know if your F20 was done and whether it has any additional info.

https://www.mopar.com/en-us/my-vehic...ls/search.html

It all seems very dodgy, including that the important acronyms involved are SKREEM and EVL.

It seems my only option going forward is to send my PCM to be programmed to forget the SKIM entirely, which is a shame because it’s a useful security system.. in theory. Has any-one else with the WH (Column Lock Module) had this done?

I invite anyone to continue commenting on this thread with their thoughts but I will follow up with links to the two new threads I am starting. One regarding the mysterious F20 recall and the other with regards to removing the SKIM and Column Lock Module functionality from the PCM permanently.

Thanks again for this community

[TorqueTalk]

Here are the links to the new specific threads, one regarding the mysterious F20 recall and the other with regards to removing the SKIM and Column Lock Module functionality from the PCM permanently.

F20 Recall Mystery (No Crank, 2005 5.7L)

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...d.php?t=156787

PCM flash to remove the SKIM and Column Lock Module (No crank 2005 5.7L)

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...d.php?t=156786

Cheers!

[TorqueTalk]

Thank you all for your attention to this.

I have since sent the PCM to the US to have the SKIM recognition removed.
When it returned I unplugged the SKIM and Column Lock, installed the reprogrammed PCM, but it did not crank. The only difference now from before is that the security light turns off now after a few seconds instead of flashing.

I have also managed to obtain a full PCM, WCM (SKIM), and ignition set from an identical vehicle.

This set allowed the car to crank but my happiness was short lived as it repeated the crank, start, stall after two seconds twice and now the no crank scenario I originally had.

Yes the ignition switch is due for a recall but the run signal from both ignition switches is reaching the relays, and the car seems primed to start cranking, however the both PCMS have refused to provide the required ground signal to close the relays and activate the starter etc.

Does the car have any other fail safes which would stop the car from cranking? Fluid levels etc? The service manual does not state any.

I am still in the underground carpark and its not a pleasant place to work. I hope My troubleshooting steps have helped some people so far, and we can find a resolution!